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How to fail at installing an APE cam chain tensioner Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Zippy 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:08 AM

My bike's been running very loud and rattle-ee for some time now and I've tried just about everything to remedy that and the bad vibration I have through the right handlebar. I figured maybe the automatic stock cam chain tensioner had gone bad.

So I decided to try installing an APE manual tensioner on my 2005 GSXR 1K.

Complete and utter disaster. Wound up destroying the unit and my bike won't start now.

Shortly after installing the APE and starting and shutting off the bike a few times, it started stalling on me like crazy. Had to keep the throttle open to about 2500 RPMs to keep if from stalling. Even then, it was a losing battle as it would eventually quit on me in less than 10 seconds.

Now with these APE installs, as a starting point you're supposed to screw in the bolt until you feel resistance and then back it off 1/4 turn. I never got to that point. When I screwed in the bolt it went from no resistance to a dead stop. I suppose that should have been a major red flag but I was kind of in a hurry to get this done and figured I'd make it work.

I'm figuring I somehow managed to get the bolt misaligned in there and that's why I was having such trouble. Every how-to I've read on these things said they were basically a plug and play unit. Only some initial fiddling and periodic tweaking were necessary.

Without being able to keep the bike from stalling and the tensioner bolt having zero feel, I finally gave up and took it off. Upon doing so I found that the bolt was badly bent and the metal end piece chewed up like crazy. I mean serious metal on metal grinding action. A large section of it is just gone.

I'm concerned I destroyed my cam chain or perhaps did something much worse.

Now my bike won't start and I'm throwing an F1 code. I threw my SpeedCell SBK battery on the Battery Tender and it seems fine.

When I hit the kill switch to the on position, I get a slight tick but no priming of the secondaries. I hit the starter and it keeps turning over but won't start.

What the hell did I do? I'm gonna check it in the morning and see if maybe a battery connection came loose but I'm equally concerned about what damage I did with the tensioner.

Besides the issue of my complete and utter inadequacy as a mechanic and a human being, any thoughts?




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#2 User is offline   Squidward 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:37 AM

Squidward likes this
"From a place you cannot see comes a sound you cannot hear"
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#3 User is offline   db79 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:50 AM

What code are you throwing?
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#4 User is offline   NOSNelson  

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 07:45 AM

I was gonna say how the fuck is that even possible but then I realized it's Zipper. Kidding aside it probably jumped time. I adjusted my buddy Ric's valves this weekend and when I first pulled the valve cover off the cams were timed on 12 pins instead of 14. The engine has never been apart. A 750 is timed on 12 pins and the 1000 is timed on 14 pins. I'm not sure if it's possible to jump but I had pulled his manual CCT once to inspect it for wear. Reinstalled it and engine fired right up. Suzuki installs a guard over the top of the cam gears that should keep the chain from jumping time on the cam gears. I have my spare engine in the garage and i'm gonna check tonight to see if if it's possible for it to jump time without the CCT installed. Whatever you do stop trying to start the engine. I can't do anything for you this week but maybe next weekend I can come by and take a look at it.
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#5 User is offline   4literranger485 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 07:49 AM

sounds like a man date :drool i'm so in!
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#6 User is offline   Zippy 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:08 AM

View PostNOSNelson, on 21 June 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

I was gonna say how the fuck is that even possible but then I realized it's Zipper. Kidding aside it probably jumped time. I adjusted my buddy Ric's valves this weekend and when I first pulled the valve cover off the cams were timed on 12 pins instead of 14. The engine has never been apart. A 750 is timed on 12 pins and the 1000 is timed on 14 pins. I'm not sure if it's possible to jump but I had pulled his manual CCT once to inspect it for wear. Reinstalled it and engine fired right up. Suzuki installs a guard over the top of the cam gears that should keep the chain from jumping time on the cam gears. I have my spare engine in the garage and i'm gonna check tonight to see if if it's possible for it to jump time without the CCT installed. Whatever you do stop trying to start the engine. I can't do anything for you this week but maybe next weekend I can come by and take a look at it.


What the hell did I do? The bolt is bent and the contact at the end is chewed up on the side. I don't understand why it went so badly (shut up, ya bastards!!!)

I suppose it was stalling because the bolt was in too tight but I backed it all the way out at one point and it was still stalling..



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#7 User is offline   NOSNelson  

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:10 AM

View PostZippy, on 21 June 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

What the hell did I do? The bolt is bent and the contact at the end is chewed up on the side. I don't understand why it went so badly (shut up, ya bastards!!!)

I suppose it was stalling because the bolt was in too tight but I backed it all the way out at one point and it was still stalling..
Stop trying to start the engine. First thing you need to do is see if you can get a new bolt and o-ring directly from APE.
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#8 User is offline   db79 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:12 AM

Is the stock and APE bolt different lengths?
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#9 User is offline   4literranger485 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:16 AM

http://www.mrcycles....=2005&fveh=7253

the chain tensioner pushes on a guide to apply tension to the chain (which on dirtbikes is plastic, dunno about this application) my guess is that you overtightened the MCCT and broke #4 allowing the MCCT bolt to contact the chain and get all dicked up.

Hopefully you didn't jump timing whilst trying to crank/run the motor with no tension on the chain, that could mean valve/piston contact. no bueno

you probably have bits of #4 floating around in there, and you almost certainly need a new cam chain as that's probably dicked up pretty good as well. hopefully you didn't bend valves.
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#10 User is offline   4literranger485 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:18 AM

View Postdb79, on 21 June 2011 - 09:12 AM, said:

Is the stock and APE bolt different lengths?


the stock has a spring loaded plunger that applies the pressure to a chain guide in there that tensions the chain set-up, it's not adjustable so there is no bolt to screw in or out.
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#11 User is offline   NOSNelson  

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:19 AM

View Postdb79, on 21 June 2011 - 09:12 AM, said:

Is the stock and APE bolt different lengths?
The OEM tensioner doesn't use a bolt.
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#12 User is offline   4literranger485 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:20 AM

:fact first
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#13 User is offline   NOSNelson  

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:21 AM

View Post4literranger485, on 21 June 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

http://www.mrcycles....=2005&fveh=7253

the chain tensioner pushes on a guide to apply tension to the chain (which on dirtbikes is plastic, dunno about this application) my guess is that you overtightened the MCCT and broke #4 allowing the MCCT bolt to contact the chain and get all dicked up.

Hopefully you didn't jump timing whilst trying to crank/run the motor with no tension on the chain, that could mean valve/piston contact. no bueno

you probably have bits of #4 floating around in there, and you almost certainly need a new cam chain as that's probably dicked up pretty good as well. hopefully you didn't bend valves.
x2. :facepalm
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#14 User is offline   Zippy 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:21 AM

View PostNOSNelson, on 21 June 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Stop trying to start the engine. First thing you need to do is see if you can get a new bolt and o-ring directly from APE.


Forget that. The stocker is back in and in for good. I won't be trying to start it anymore. I could certainly use your help tearing it open and taking a look. That would be awesome. Otherwise, I may take her down to John Ethel at JETT Tuning and have him do it. Gonna be pricey, though.



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#15 User is offline   4literranger485 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:23 AM

http://www.aperacepa...tensioners.html

skipped step 1 :face
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#16 User is offline   db79 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:26 AM

View Post4literranger485, on 21 June 2011 - 09:23 AM, said:




I think he skipped this part

Quote

CAUTION: INCORRECT INSTALLATION OF A MANUAL CAM CHAIN TENSIONER MAY RESULT IN SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE. IF YOU ARE NOT CERTAIN HOW TO INSTALL THE CAM CHAIN TENSIONER THEN IT IS ADVISED THAT IT BE INSTALLED BY A SHOP WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROCESS.

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#17 User is offline   NOSNelson  

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:30 AM

View PostZippy, on 21 June 2011 - 09:21 AM, said:

Forget that. The stocker is back in and in for good. I won't be trying to start it anymore. I could certainly use your help tearing it open and taking a look. That would be awesome. Otherwise, I may take her down to John Ethel at JETT Tuning and have him do it. Gonna be pricey, though.
The APE is better because if installed properly it can't fail. I only stuck with the OEM for so long because my engine was under warranty and I didn't care if it failed. Now that it's out of warranty I have a manual on it. I'm picking one up fopr Rics bike today as well. I'll help you for sure but I have a trackday next Monday so this weekend is shot.
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#18 User is offline   4literranger485 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:33 AM

:+1 the only thing that can go wrong with an MCCT is operator induced


should we change the title now? :lol
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#19 User is offline   Zippy 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:34 AM

I'm seriously worried I destroyed my engine. Fack!!!



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#20 User is offline   NOSNelson  

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:36 AM

View PostZippy, on 21 June 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:

I'm seriously worried I destroyed my engine. Fack!!!
Worst case it has bent valves but more than likely it wouldn't even start. Just leave it alone for right now. Call APE and order a new bolt and o-ring.
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