Suzuki Motorcycles Forum banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
584 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So for a guy not racing, running just a slip on, would a power commander do just as good as a Bazzaz unit? If I go Bazzaz do you need the closed loop option to tune it yourself? I read the seller's description of the unit, I was just wanting some other opinions.
 

Attachments

·
Members
Joined
·
5,173 Posts
A pc3 will be cheaper and easier for most people. The bazzaz unit can tune itself but you'll have to tap a wideband sensor into your exhaust and buy the fuel controller and the tuner. If you do it so it tunes itself it doesn't have a map stored so it adjusts after it reads the exhaust using the sensor. This means there is always a delay in the perfect mixture. Now from what Amarr the owner was telling me is that you can go around and log it, then download the log then put in a target air to fuel ratio then it will adjust your map to hit that, then you upload the map. Then you go out and log around some more and then bring it back and it will tweak it again, etc...this way is the most optimal for tuning. It would most likely be handy for guys who change mods a lot or enjoy tuning themself. Once the bazzaz is tuned in though or the pc3 they both do the exact same thing.

the bazzaz unit will be nice if say you install a full exhaust, then you want to do engine work, then you want to change your ram air, then you want to do xxxx. This way you don't have to go to the dyno every time you change something, but you can do it yourself. Do most people do this though? no. It is a badass unit though? yes....

I haven't seen it myself, but this is based on what the owner was telling me when I talked to him.
 

·
Site Sponsor
Joined
·
1,445 Posts
+1

Unless you tap your stock exhaust for the A/F sensor and buy the sensor your better off with the PC. I'm going to run the full Bazzaz on my racebike this year but I think it's a little too much to deal with for the average street/trackday rider to get the most out of it. It's definatly a track weapon or for guys who really enjoy tweaking. Cant wait to get my hands on them, MM you hearing Mid Feb as well?
 

·
Members
Joined
·
5,173 Posts
we heard last may, june, then july, then aug, then oct, then jan, then feb. I think they will become available when durrani's start selling. I honestly have heard feb and hope that is date, but they are only nearly a year behind right now so it's anyone's guess if they actually keep that date.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
95 Posts
speedwasinvolved said:
So for a guy not racing, running just a slip on, would a power commander do just as good as a Bazzaz unit? If I go Bazzaz do you need the closed loop option to tune it yourself? I read the seller's description of the unit, I was just wanting some other opinions.
The AF sensor in the exhaust is needed to know what your Air/Fuel ratio is, without it Dyno tuning is a guessing game. Don't get me wrong, guys can and have tuned without AF sensors for years. But you want optimum results in the shortest amount of time when it comes to Dyno tuning a bike. By monitoring the AF ratio in relation to power, there is no guess work just results. Bazzaz just thought, hey why not use this AF sensor all the time instead of just while dyno tuning. So no you do not need the ZAFM, but you will need to have your bike on a dyno to initially set up the Z-Fi just like the PC. If you use the ZAFM you could skip the initial Dyno session all together, You just set a target AF ratio and let the Z-FI do the work.

I spoke to Ammar a week ago, he said they are shipping the week before the dealer expo in Indy.

motomummy said:
Once the bazzaz is tuned in though or the pc3 they both do the exact same thing.
Not true the Z-FI will control 8 injectors, the PC only will do 4
 

·
Member
Joined
·
95 Posts
TrackStar1 said:
+1
I think it's a little too much to deal with for the average street/trackday rider to get the most out of it.
I'm a street/trackday rider and 1 session on the dyno and i'm getting the most out of it, + it continually updates the map so it gradually gets closer and closer to your pre-set AF ratio. and when the weather changes it'll compensate for that too, sure not instantly but faster then you going back to the shop to run the bike on the dyno again for alot less money as well. The initial invest might be a few bucks more, but in the future you'll save alot!!
 

·
Members
Joined
·
5,173 Posts
well if you get 2 pc3's then they do the same thing and dynojet found out there really isn't a need to control all 8. Bikes have been running on the pc3 for years and none blow up because of it. It works just fine. I'm not saying the bazzaz is bad, as it's not, but 90% of the people out there buy a pc3 and use a map already out there. For them the bazzaz would just be more money. For those who want to know how to tune it and mod their bikes all the time then the bazzaz is the cats meow. Hopefully they do end up shipping in that timeframe.

Sully you should look at the Motty unit. It actually changes the map as you ride from what I understand and has a few more options. Where the bazzaz tunes it on the fly which has a delay, or you use a hard map, the motty has a hard map but alters the hard map as it goes. Basically the same thing the bazzaz does, but it does it while you're riding from what I understand. Motty is here so hopefully he will chime in. Problem is that it's not plug and play so the masses won't be using it. It's made for a smaller market with all the soldering required.

The bazzaz will be a badass unit, but for many out there the pc3 will be cheaper and a local tuner will know how to tune it. If you have tuned standalone ecu's or a motec or something then the bazzaz sounds like the best product if you like to tweak on bikes all the time. I'ts just most don't want to do that or risk messing it up and blowing their engine for doing the wrong a/f ratio or whatever else. Same as a motec on a turbo car. I have seen many think they can do it, then mess it up and blow it up.

From what Amarr told me you have to pull the logging and map then tune it again for the target a/f ratio then it will adjust the map. correct? What if someone who doesn't know what they are doing puts in the wrong a/f ratio? Are their safeguards?

I think it will be a great product, but most people don't map their own pc3 and don't know how. This is even more complicated. I think mostly the track day guys or guys who change things on their bike often would benefit from it. Other then that the pc3 does get the job done and is cheaper and easier.

I just hope people don't buy it thinking it's a cake walk w/o realizing the consequences if they tune it wrong and ride it.

Sully said:
I'm a street/trackday rider and 1 session on the dyno and i'm getting the most out of it, + it continually updates the map so it gradually gets closer and closer to your pre-set AF ratio. and when the weather changes it'll compensate for that too, sure not instantly but faster then you going back to the shop to run the bike on the dyno again for alot less money as well. The initial invest might be a few bucks more, but in the future you'll save alot!!
 

·
Members
Joined
·
5,173 Posts
As long as people know what they are getting in for and understand the risks and a know a bit about tuning, widebands, etc...then it's great. If they don't...then you need to learn a good bit or at least realize if you mess up that you might need to call kws and have them rebuild your block. I just hope people know the risks because it's plug and play. I love plug and play but people think if it's plug and play then it's a joke. If it tunes it while riding and has a delay then all the time your'e riding it's a step behind which isn't the best. if you use a hard map and it's wrong...then you could have serious issues if you do not catch it also. I just know products and with all the hype over this I just know it's going to end up some peopels' hands who shouldn't be messing with it.

A few weeks ago we had a guy call saying he wanted one. He ended up going with a pc3 and asked us to map it as he said he didn't know how and didn't feel comfortable doing it. But he wanted to buy a bazzaz at first and tune it himself? See where the problems are going to come from?

To tune any vehicle fully all by yourself you should know what an egt is, wideband, 4 wire wideband, 2 wire, ping, detonation, temp alum melts, standard a/f ratio's, how changing temps can require a change in a map, how you'll feel the fastest while damn lean, That if you set it for max hp or on the dge that altitude and temps can put it into a danger zone, etc...

There is more to it then people realize and normally most tuners tune for all around rideability and stability and not max hp. I can already see someone going and making it more lean to get a few more hp so they can beat their buddy in a roll on. Shit people do it with turbo boost and afc/stand alone's all the time.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,894 Posts
Sully said:
I'm a street/trackday rider and 1 session on the dyno and i'm getting the most out of it, + it continually updates the map so it gradually gets closer and closer to your pre-set AF ratio. and when the weather changes it'll compensate for that too, sure not instantly but faster then you going back to the shop to run the bike on the dyno again for alot less money as well. The initial invest might be a few bucks more, but in the future you'll save alot!!
So you are saying that the unit has to be run on a dyno to get its "baseline" before it can be used to its potential?

As for the initial investment... that will be great for a street/trackday rider/novice racer that doesnt have to change bikes every two years for contingency. I do understand that is the biggest market as well... but it is not the smartest thing for an expert racer to use unless it will adapt to the bikes that change every 2 years... I am also not sure if the a/f sensor is S/S legal for any sanctioning racebody.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,894 Posts
motomummy said:
you don't need a dyno for a baseline. It's plug and play so you have to buy it for your model of bike...
Is it going to be plug and play for the different makes of exhaust sytesm as well as the different bikes?
 

·
Site Sponsor
Joined
·
1,445 Posts
The A/F sensor is not legal for SS in any orgs I know of. Additional sensors are generally not SS legal.

Plug and play for all exhaust systems with a Lambda sensor fitting. Otherwise you have to have one welded on I believe. It works by the add on sensor (does not come with the purchase of the base unit) reading your exhaust and making changes to the map on the fly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
motomummy said:
Sully you should look at the Motty unit. It actually changes the map as you ride from what I understand and has a few more options. Where the bazzaz tunes it on the fly which has a delay, or you use a hard map, the motty has a hard map but alters the hard map as it goes. Basically the same thing the bazzaz does, but it does it while you're riding from what I understand. Motty is here so hopefully he will chime in. Problem is that it's not plug and play so the masses won't be using it. It's made for a smaller market with all the soldering required.
Yes, I'm here. Please take a look at http://www.afrtuner.com and if you have questions then I'm happy to answer.

You can also check gixxer.com there have been some discussions about the AFR Tuner including comparing it to the Bazzaz unit.

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167424

You can also find other topics there by using the search fetaure.

motty
 

·
Members
Joined
·
5,173 Posts
you don't have to weld it on. Some exhaust systems come with a bung so you can screw in the sensor, but if you don't have that then you'll have to drill a hole into your exhaust and weld in a bung so you can screw in the sensor. Many places can't weld titanium also so finding a local place could be a bit difficult if you're not in a large city. you could always send your mid pipe out though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,894 Posts
TrackStar1 said:
The A/F sensor is not legal for SS in any orgs I know of. Additional sensors are generally not SS legal.

Plug and play for all exhaust systems with a Lambda sensor fitting. Otherwise you have to have one welded on I believe. It works by the add on sensor (does not come with the purchase of the base unit) reading your exhaust and making changes to the map on the fly.
I can see why it will not legal for any S/S racer.

Each exhaust system will flow different is what I am saying. So with that being said each system will need a baseline map to start unless you get the sensor with it.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
95 Posts
Bazzaz make a Z-FI without TC and QS to compete directly with the PCIII usb it retails for the exact same money as a PCIII usb, comes with a map for your bike with either a slip on or full system. You dont have to have any FI tuning knowledge to own one just like the PC, theres no chance you can blow up your engine. Will control all 8 fuel injectors unlike the PCIII which will only do 4, yes there is a benefit to this! Any bike that is Euro 4 certified will have a stock Lambda sensor.

I'm amazed at how many people will spend $300 bucks for a PC and then not get it mapped. Ask anyone that knows what they're talking about and they will say go get it mapped properly.

I understand some negative talk about Bazzaz, they've had some delays and then more delays, but the goods are ready now and the distributors should have all of it by Feb. so give the product a chance, and i'm sure you'll be satisfied with the Z-FI

Or just go buy a PCIII and then not get it mapped, your bike will run great:thumbup

Hell if your gonna do that at least buy the model that'll control all 8 injectors for the same money, that way when you realize you should have had the thing mapped in the first place, you'll be getting your low speed and Hi speed injectors sorted with 1 box instead of 2. Your bike will love you that much more!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,894 Posts
Sully said:
Bazzaz make a Z-FI without TC and QS to compete directly with the PCIII usb it retails for the exact same money as a PCIII usb, comes with a map for your bike with either a slip on or full system. You dont have to have any FI tuning knowledge to own one just like the PC, theres no chance you can blow up your engine. Will control all 8 fuel injectors unlike the PCIII which will only do 4, yes there is a benefit to this! Any bike that is Euro 4 certified will have a stock Lambda sensor.

I'm amazed at how many people will spend $300 bucks for a PC and then not get it mapped. Ask anyone that knows what they're talking about and they will say go get it mapped properly.

I understand some negative talk about Bazzaz, they've had some delays and then more delays, but the goods are ready now and the distributors should have all of it by Feb. so give the product a chance, and i'm sure you be satisfied with the Z-FI

Or just go buy a PCIII and then not get it mapped, your bike will run great:thumbup

Hell if your gonna do that at least buy the model that'll control all 8 injectors for the same money, that way when you realize you should have had the thing mapped in the first place, you'll be getting your low speed and Hi speed injectors sorted with 1 box instead of 2. Your bike will love you that much more!
With what you are saying.. a person could get one set it to either slip on or full system and go without any tuning work?
 

·
Member
Joined
·
95 Posts
slidewayz said:
With what you are saying.. a person could get one set it to either slip on or full system and go without any tuning work?
Absolutely, all unit's come with a installed map for your bike with a high flow filter and exhaust. Obviously a generic map just like the PC and for optimum results consult your local dyno shop
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,894 Posts
Sully said:
Absolutely, all unit's come with a installed map for your bike with a high flow filter and exhaust. Obviously a generic map just like the PC and for optimum results consult your local dyno shop
Thanks for the info!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Sully said:
Absolutely, all unit's come with a installed map for your bike with a high flow filter and exhaust. Obviously a generic map just like the PC and for optimum results consult your local dyno shop
thats the exact reason im sold on the bazazz, bc it does utilize all 8 injectors and you do need those other 4 to get the most power out of your bike when you tune it....they are there for a reason
... yea it cost about 100 more then the pc3 but hey you get what you pay for 9 out of 10 times...plus its plug and play so correct me if im wrong but that would mean no splicing and extended intalling time.... and it comes with the preset maps for your bike so you dont have to be on the computer downloading maps... sounds good to me... my 1 ? is how do the preset maps work? how do you choose between full system or slip-on, race filter or stock filter?
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top